March 31st, 2005
Nobody Likes "Skinny Bitches"
I’ve got mail! Ginmar writes,
“I’ve never suggest that harassment=size, and I’d appreciate it if you didn’t suggest that I said that, either. Women of all sizes get harassed. Their size is irrelevant. The character of their harassers is what’s relevant. Are you honest to God saying that thin women get harassed because of their size? That is revolting, and it seems unavoidable to deny in view of the ‘not militant enough to deny’ remark.”
“Women get harassed because they’re women. There’s any number of studies out there that will point this out to you. Suggesting that it has something to do with looks and size offers false hope and false escape from blame. Revolting.”
My response:
Ginmar, I’m really sorry that you feel this way, because it seems you’ve completely misread what I wrote. I actually really appreciated your post at LiveJournal because it informed my thinking about this whole topic–mainly by focusing my attention on the fact that I have NOT had the experiences you and your commenters were discussing. I’m not at all saying that women are harassed because of their size, but I DO believe that in the regular everyday scheme of things, thin and/or conventionally attractive women ARE more likely to be chosen for the certain type of sexual pressure you were talking about in your post. I think it’s two sides of the same coin–fat women, who DON’T “look right,” often think if we were only thin, our lives would be perfect; when in reality, thin women, who DO “look right,” STILL get harassed by men, albeit in a different way. So my point was that, rather than dissing thin women with comments like “skinny bitches,” we’d better understand that we’re all in this together. I direct your attention to the line about how men’s bad behavior of whatever nature isn’t thin women’s fault.
Please read my post again and let me know if there’s any way I could make my point clearer; if you’ve misread it, I’m sure others could as well.
Thanks, Amy
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Sarah writes,
“I find it frustrating that you don’t have comments on your blog so that I might answer you publicly on this matter. I’m feeling a little maligned. For starters I click on your link to _references by fat women_ and see my own site pop up, which is a little jarring. What bothers me more is the next part of the sentence: (or women who’re just fatter than the women they’re criticizing). I am a supersized woman, not just a woman who has body image problems or who thinks she needs to starve herself to be a size 2 instead of a size 6. I am a woman who is at the end of the size line at plus-sized shops you can walk into. Frankly, considering my size, I have a pretty darn good body image which I have fought hard to achieve.”
“Then there is the issue that I feel you may have completely missed the point of my poem…so one could easily get the impression from the link that that’s what my blog’s about or that I had spent a whole entry bashing skinny women which, I can’t imagine you wouldn’t agree, is not the case…I think it’s pretty clear that I’m making fun of myself here. I have many skinny friends and a couple friends who are struggling with anorexia and bulimia. What I’m pointing out in the stanza is how easy it can be to progressively stray from one’s core values while spending too much time paying attention to mass media.”
“Anyway, enough said. I don’t expect any sort of giant public spectacle, I’d just like to see that link either taken out or redirected at someone with malicious intent.”
“Thanks for your time, Sarah Bebhinn”
My response:
Thanks for your reply Sarah. If you want, I’d be glad to post some or all of your comments on the blog.
> part of the sentence: (or women who’re just
> fatter than the women they’re
> criticizing).
This bit was not directed at you, but at a woman at a poetry slam I went to recently who was tall and slender and probably weighed 125, and won the competition with a poem in which she maligned equally women “with curves” and women thinner than her, also calling them “skinny bitches.” Unfortunately she doesn’t have a website so I couldn’t put up a link to her–though I probably could have included her as an example, which I was reluctant to do because I didn’t remember her exact words. (Note: I have subsequently edited this entry hoping to clarify this confusion.) The link to your comment was meant as an example only, not as completely representative of the kind of phenomenon I was referring to.
> Frankly, considering
> my size, I have a pretty darn
> good body image which I have fought hard to
> achieve.
I’m happy for you. I know how hard that is since I weigh over 400 pounds. I’m not sure why you think I implied anything else.
> so one could easily get the impression
> from the link that that’s what
> my blog’s about or that I had spent a whole
> entry bashing skinny women
> which, I can’t imagine you wouldn’t agree, is
> not the case.
Certainly not. Again, I don’t believe I said or implied anything like that. I think the word I used was “reference”–which is exactly what it is.
> I think it’s pretty clear that I’m making fun
> of myself here. [snip]
> What I’m pointing out in the stanza is
> how easy it can be to
> progressively stray from one’s core values
> while spending too much time
> paying attention to mass media.
I understand and appreciate this interpretation, but I have to say, that WASN’T the way I read your poem, which is why it seemed to me to be an example of the phenomenon I was talking about.
> Anyway, enough said. I don’t expect any sort of
> giant public spectacle, I’d
> just like to see that link either taken out or
> redirected at someone with
> malicious intent.
Well, again, Sarah, since I misunderstood your poem, I think it’s possible that other people might misunderstand your intent there as well. And that’s what my blog was about–making our intent clear, being clear about who and what we hate and why we hate them. In a way I wonder if you haven’t missed the points *I* was trying to make, because from what you’ve said here, it seems like you would agree with where I eventually went in that post. As I see it, I meant my link to your site as a lead-in to write about a lot of thoughts and experiences I’ve had lately, a lot of “clicks” in my own mind about my own fat-hating assumptions…which I own up to very clearly in my second or third paragraph. So I don’t believe I was setting myself up as any kind of paragon of size-acceptance virtue. And yet, I do think that it’s so possible to misread the words you used–how would we feel if someone used the words “fat bitches” even if she claimed she meant to be making fun of herself?–so possible that they might hurt women who are or could be our allies, that I think I’m of the opinion that the intent behind the words isn’t as important as the damage those words might do, regardless of intent.
Thanks again for writing me.
Amy
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The best thing about being a feminist–arguing with people I agree with.
